tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2171294815895801587.post7979507018217381208..comments2023-10-22T13:06:32.952-04:00Comments on Organizing Grievances: (some of) NAM's Greatest Hits - Then and Nowwobbliehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13840385151170176977noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2171294815895801587.post-82833072411985187872008-12-17T17:04:00.000-05:002008-12-17T17:04:00.000-05:00Don't forget Marx's "Manifesto" was pub. in 1848. ...Don't forget Marx's "Manifesto" was pub. in 1848. February, for that matter - that way, it's got the entire year to "exist" in this particular spatial/temporal setting. Big year. What with the "Spring of Nations" and all. Irish Potato Famine is right through this time too, no?Wilburhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07243366617773918813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2171294815895801587.post-63992896553230388412008-12-17T16:57:00.000-05:002008-12-17T16:57:00.000-05:00On second thought, I would struggle between Ducham...On second thought, I would struggle between Duchamp and Courbet. Then, I'd eventually settle on Courbet on the basis of his temporal pole positioning. He will effectively initiate a logic of dissent - one in which Duchamp is destined to follow, albeit with more self-destructive intent - for the coming 100 years. "Burial at Ornans" gets madd props as the Critical Moment (with "Stone Breakers" a close second).Wilburhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07243366617773918813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2171294815895801587.post-68062045963959373042008-12-17T16:51:00.000-05:002008-12-17T16:51:00.000-05:00Thanks, Wobs. That was pretty much the response I ...Thanks, Wobs. That was pretty much the response I needed. I go to art history school, me'self - so I really have never ventured into territory like this. I suppose the most I ever got involved in subjects of this nature in school have been: 1) "The Dialectic of Enlightenment," 2) "Postmodernism, Or the Cultural Logic of Late Capitalism," and 3) "Empire" (chronological order but also the reverse in which read them). I really liked all three, of course, but when things get logistical/technical and beyond these (predictable) sources, I tend to get lost...then I get a little frustrated. That's all. But, to answer your question (and I don't know how much real substance my ill-informed input on this may be), I suppose I kind of brought up my initial "observation" in the first place is it made me wonder what's more effective in the long run (or at all, for that matter): 1) the "Red Meat"("meat-and-potatoes"?) convo that you noted OR 2) the more, let's say, "specialized dialogue." Then, it made me wonder about the marginalization (and generally ineffectual role) of the of the Academic Left. But I guess what I would characterize as an American brand of the intelligentsia can also kind of oscillate between those two paths of discussion. <BR/><BR/>And what's that citation for the whole "necessity of dissent within dissent" idea? There's more than one, of course, spanning from about the 1840's to the 1960's...I'd nominate Duchamp, coming from the art history thing...(READ: Shameless attempt to talk about something I know for a change! Haha!)Wilburhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07243366617773918813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2171294815895801587.post-31491311331048779992008-12-17T12:15:00.000-05:002008-12-17T12:15:00.000-05:00Those are your $60K questions, right there, right ...Those are your $60K questions, right there, right there.wobbliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13840385151170176977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2171294815895801587.post-52336496025769999952008-12-17T11:58:00.000-05:002008-12-17T11:58:00.000-05:00wobs/AP re: Labor Sec. David Bonior's name keeps c...wobs/AP re: Labor Sec. <BR/><BR/>David Bonior's name keeps coming up, even though he says he doesn't want the job. <BR/><BR/>Wobs, who do you think has both the political clout and the ideological bona fides to get the job done? Where's Gephart in all this?lex dexterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02984338384931444324noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2171294815895801587.post-85545138469608232352008-12-17T10:48:00.000-05:002008-12-17T10:48:00.000-05:00A certain former president of a national labor uni...A certain former president of a national labor union with which many of us have been associated has had his name pop up in the mix from time-to-time. Just sayin'.<BR/><BR/>I've been going back and forth on Maxwell at DoL. On the one hand, she's a real-deal laborite. On the other, I'm not sure she has the institutional and personal heft to go toe-to-toe with the money gurus on Obama's staff. Basically, if we only want the SecO'Lab to make the DoL a worker-friendly bureaucracy, Maxwell's an awesome choice. However, if we want someone who will rip Geithner, Summers, and Volker new assholes when necessary, I don't know that she's the one for the job - she might be, but I don't know.<BR/><BR/>William: I see your point - we do tend to have a lot of meta-discussions about labor, primarily because a lot of us are concerned about how to position the movement in order to arrest it's decline, and if you're not on that conversation, it can be kind of off-putting. We know that - in fact, we would never have these sorts of conversations with most union members with whom we interact. We'd have the red-meat "bosses are out to screw you and that's why you need to get involved with the union" type conversations. So maybe that's what we need a dose of around here every now and again, no?wobbliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13840385151170176977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2171294815895801587.post-81236941732219322142008-12-16T23:27:00.000-05:002008-12-16T23:27:00.000-05:00AP, EZ and I are holding out hope that Mary Beth M...AP, <BR/>EZ and I are holding out hope that Mary Beth Maxwell from American Rights at Work will get the Labor Sec gig. But I bet it's somebody boring-er and neutral-er than that.lex dexterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02984338384931444324noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2171294815895801587.post-9774656976755076222008-12-16T22:29:00.000-05:002008-12-16T22:29:00.000-05:00Damn, someone here is actually writing a dissertat...Damn, someone here is actually writing a dissertation on this?<BR/><BR/>What I want to know is: who the FUCK is going to be the Secretary of Labor and why is that s/he the absolute last person getting picked?<BR/><BR/>Minus my nominal allegiance if it's Granholm.<BR/><BR/>AlyssaPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2171294815895801587.post-44262904638898483342008-12-16T20:38:00.000-05:002008-12-16T20:38:00.000-05:00Dave -That's fine. And I understand the basics (I ...Dave -<BR/><BR/>That's fine. And I understand the basics (I guess I already did, now that you put it that way). I guess with the content of this blog I just feel like I'm in WAY over my head and have a difficult time "connecting the dots" to see how I should be happy/upset by certain things that come across the Ticker here. I mean, I'm not writing a dissertation on this type of stuff or anything - but you are, and I understand that. AND, it's your blog, so write whatever you feel up for, by any/all means. As for me, I really, most certainly don't have enough of a labortalk vocabulary to keep up with most of the posts. Hell, I'm from Tennessee and only heard about who Bob Corker was (and what he's into) just last week. I don't know why that is. I don't necessarily consider myself ill-informed, lazy, stupid, or apathetic - but I start to feel that way when I can't "make sense" of anything.Wilburhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07243366617773918813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2171294815895801587.post-37315061442188364342008-12-16T20:22:00.000-05:002008-12-16T20:22:00.000-05:00william, (i'm going to take that last admonishment...william,<BR/> <BR/>(i'm going to take that last admonishment as a tongue-in-cheek kinda thing. i'll quit blogging and never look back if i'm thrust into a situation in which i am obliged to "make sense." i can produce any quantity of loved ones, colleagues and mentors to testify to the fact that "making sense" eludes me as much in other life-worlds as in this blog-world.) <BR/><BR/>in the above post i was just trying to compile some horrifying quotations from a century-old employers association that impedes workplace democracy and poisons the larger political culture to this very day. <BR/><BR/>and yeah, retiring at 65 sounds nice. finally i'll have time to play Keno like it's meant to be played.lex dexterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02984338384931444324noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2171294815895801587.post-79978206351887118222008-12-16T20:10:00.000-05:002008-12-16T20:10:00.000-05:00William,Posting stupid shit was my bailiwick. You...William,<BR/><BR/>Posting stupid shit was my bailiwick. You can find me at http://....<BR/><BR/>Kidding. It's not that hard. You say you just want to go to work, take weekends and call in sick. You don't seem to want to join with your co-workers to be able to negotiate your wages and benefits. Is that something you'd like to do, or you really don't want to? If you really don't want to, then a union is not your bag. Hopefully, you might be supportive if others want to negotiate with their employer. <BR/><BR/>That's Union 101.dave3544https://www.blogger.com/profile/05683213316867939951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2171294815895801587.post-62781409055942890752008-12-16T17:37:00.000-05:002008-12-16T17:37:00.000-05:00This blog really loses me sometimes. When are you ...This blog really loses me sometimes. When are you intelligentsia labor types (that's not intended to be an insult, btw) going to level with simps like me rather than talking (big) circles around us? All I wanna do is: 1) have a job, 2) go to job every day ('cept holidays and when I'm seeck), 3) come home at a reasonable hour, 4) repeat until I'm 65. Is it that I'm simply missing something or I'm just too stupid to understand what is going on? Labor talk? I really don't know how to engage in a conversation about that with you guys. In fact, I find it downright intimidating to even consider. Post a picture of Gizmo from "Gremlins" or something and I'll be captivated/happy.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02233365188798495074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2171294815895801587.post-76004365367793443372008-12-16T16:04:00.000-05:002008-12-16T16:04:00.000-05:00Credit where it's due - at least now they feign to...Credit where it's due - at least now they feign to care about the worker.wobbliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13840385151170176977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2171294815895801587.post-43615977030276381382008-12-16T15:48:00.000-05:002008-12-16T15:48:00.000-05:00Organized labor knows but one law and that is the ...Organized labor knows but one law and that is the law of physical force – the law of the Huns and Vandals, the law of the savage. All its purposes are accomplished either by actual force or by the threat of force…It is, in all essential features, a mob power knowing no master except its own will. Its history is stained with blood and ruin…It extends its tactics of coercion and intimidation over all classes, dictating to the press and to the politicians and strangling independence of through and American manhood.” – David M. Perry, President of the National Association of Manufacturers, 1903.lex dexterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02984338384931444324noreply@blogger.com