tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2171294815895801587.post7447565215450407794..comments2023-10-22T13:06:32.952-04:00Comments on Organizing Grievances: Hillary Never Would Have Done Thiswobbliehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13840385151170176977noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2171294815895801587.post-47070331146912297062008-09-10T13:46:00.000-04:002008-09-10T13:46:00.000-04:00Oh good lord, I'm gonna call bullshit on you too, ...Oh good lord, I'm gonna call bullshit on you too, ez. Hillary would've sold us down the river on things that are important to us as well. I just don't think it would've been on education policy.wobbliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13840385151170176977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2171294815895801587.post-81436639623842462202008-09-10T12:47:00.000-04:002008-09-10T12:47:00.000-04:00I really want to say I told you so.... but I will ...I really want to say I told you so.... but I will refrain.EZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01678025368338671670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2171294815895801587.post-47520290753000545552008-09-10T11:43:00.000-04:002008-09-10T11:43:00.000-04:00Wait... McCain was a POW?Wait... McCain was a POW?wobbliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13840385151170176977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2171294815895801587.post-48859536195199716272008-09-10T11:33:00.000-04:002008-09-10T11:33:00.000-04:00yeah. we need to admit that Hillary has been "bett...yeah. <BR/><BR/>we need to admit that Hillary has been "better" on healthcare and education than Obama, up to this point. there's not really any shame in doing so! it's totally possible to concede the issue (and the voting bloc it brings with it) while maintaining that BHO is the better candidate. (i for one prefer BHO because he runs around with Bill Ayres, Andy Stern, Warren Buffett and Father Pfleger (my main man).<BR/><BR/>and having indulged in some swarthy glad-handing avec the NJ delegation at the DNC, let me assure you that certain well-placed unions on the East Coast enjoy a certain kinda "juice" with DC-dwellers that even sophisticated badasses (sic) like AFT-OR cannot merit in the NW. joe biden, par example, seems to be better on "schools" than he is on "predatory credit practices."<BR/><BR/>but i've been organizing grievances already, so i may be missing the entire thrust here. what i mean to say is that this is ALREADY POST OF THE WEEK, my fave blog-moment since the "McCain = POW" meme last week! <BR/><BR/>'good to see my role models lobbing hurtin' bombs at one another with so much vinegar. <BR/><BR/>now didn't EZ promise us a new inane poll?lex dexterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02984338384931444324noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2171294815895801587.post-84242726327261333242008-09-10T11:18:00.000-04:002008-09-10T11:18:00.000-04:00Education policy isn't the war. Moreover, charter...Education policy isn't the war. Moreover, charter schools and accountability were our issues before they were theirs.<BR/><BR/>Yes, I think you're conflating Bill and Hillary (and not without reason), and yes, I remember the 90s. But thinking back on the combined Clinton record to '92, I can't recall one "you really fucked up this time" concession on education policy that would lead me to believe she'd throw the teachers' unions to the curbs. Perhaps I'm wrong. <BR/><BR/>To wrap it back around, the anti-war left was never her base. The teachers, on the other hand, make up a big chunk of her base. Her ties to the teachers unions run way too deep for her to go as far as Obama did.wobbliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13840385151170176977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2171294815895801587.post-9934020752827135922008-09-10T11:10:00.000-04:002008-09-10T11:10:00.000-04:00I'll stop being a n00b and commenting on my own po...I'll stop being a n00b and commenting on my own post in a sec, but I had a friend in the education field mention BHO's speech yesterday and NPR ran a story on it, so I thought it was new, more expansive statement of his positions. <BR/><BR/>Sorry if it's old news.dave3544https://www.blogger.com/profile/05683213316867939951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2171294815895801587.post-13623715766963355842008-09-10T11:04:00.000-04:002008-09-10T11:04:00.000-04:00And while Hillary strongly opposes the war, she wi...And while Hillary strongly opposes the war, she will go ahead and vote for it any way. <BR/><BR/>I know I am conflating Hillary and Bill to a certain degree, but we're you so zoned out that you don't remember the '90s at all? The Clintonian wing of the Democratic party <I>invented</I> giving the Republicans our lunch money in the hopes that they will stop hitting us. <BR/><BR/>Did you miss the discuss of Mark Penn? <BR/><BR/>Never, ever trust a Clinton.dave3544https://www.blogger.com/profile/05683213316867939951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2171294815895801587.post-57133628690478090102008-09-10T11:03:00.000-04:002008-09-10T11:03:00.000-04:00first off, Dana Goldstein at the American Prospect...first off, Dana Goldstein at the American Prospect on how the Dems have "lost" the education debate: http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=the_democratic_education_divide <BR/><BR/>great post - i'll use the time-stamp thing to try and help us get some debate here. i should wait for the Heavies to jump in, but: <BR/><BR/>1) doesn't the AFT already "support" - by which i mean, "organize workers in" - charter schools? <BR/><BR/>2) did he once use the word "union" in the speech? BHO is confident he can deliver his message (more standards) to the public while maintaining some sort of wink-nudge (but you guys will WRITE the standards) with the NEA/AFT. <BR/><BR/>3) as wooshy as he's been on this topic, we need to view this debate with an eye toward winning back the moral high-ground on public education. john mccain should not be allowed to call school choice a "civil rights issue" and give people boners without being made to pay. <BR/> 3a) But when I say 'we need to....(win) this debate....," who's WE? the unions? Dems? people in places where public education has been decimated, or never was much to begin with? All three of these groups have shown themselves to be capable of quite a bit of dissent and in-fighting, when jobs, ideology or their kids were on the line. <BR/> 3b) Frankly, I think education is a place where the Dems' version of the capital-W "WE" falls dreadfully short in bringing together a majority. Their message about "failing schools" is really about winning the middle, and not the substantially larger populations of workers, and students/parents in underserved places. Again, a genuine LEFT turn from the DEMS - towards workers and the poor - could, I think, galvanize teachers/parents/students, and start to change the nature of the 2008 Dem "WE." <BR/><BR/> But shucks, I might as well go back to counting Reuthers dancing on the head of a pin if I'm calling for leftward-bound Dem policies in an election year.lex dexterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02984338384931444324noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2171294815895801587.post-56985031708756663922008-09-10T10:57:00.000-04:002008-09-10T10:57:00.000-04:00Totally agree with your post, but I think your way...Totally agree with your post, but I think your way off base in your comment.<BR/><BR/>Obama's education positions aren't new (it's part of the reason he didn't get the endorsement in the first place). Hillary's ties with the education unions, on the other hand, go back two decades, and her positions pretty much parallel those of the Organization.<BR/><BR/>Now, this isn't to say that she wouldn't address some of the very things Obama espoused, but I think she'd add the very important caveat that it needs to have the involvement of teachers. As Machiavellian as she may be, I think her political positions, as well as her political base (especially in NY), are too deeply enmeshed with the teachers' unions (especially the Organization) for her to go as far as Obama did.<BR/><BR/>But other than that, righteous.wobbliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13840385151170176977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2171294815895801587.post-75523931264220656652008-09-10T10:35:00.000-04:002008-09-10T10:35:00.000-04:00Just kidding with the title. Of course Hillary wo...Just kidding with the title. Of course Hillary would have done this. The Clintons have been shivving their allies since before Barack was born.dave3544https://www.blogger.com/profile/05683213316867939951noreply@blogger.com